The Footprint of Mussolini - TL

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Sorairo

GTStinger said:
On some level are other nations silently relieved to use SA as a relief valve for citizens that don’t fit in modern society?
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Very, to the extent that undercover agents in these movements typically encourage it as a means to get rid of undesirables in their native countries. Consequently, the Far-Right is toast in most of Europe since most of their leaders moved to South Africa in the 90/00s to escape legal punishment for 'hate speech' and financial irregularities. The BNP, for instance, never became a household word in Britain - especially since a lot of their forebearers already left the country with Mosely to Rhodesia back in the 1960s when Anti-Fascist intensity was at its highest.
 
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Sorairo

AK47Productions said:
I'm more surprised that there wasn't a General-Secretary or Premier thrown into that list just for completion's sake.
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South Africa may be fine with chomos, serial killers, drug lords and people who believe they are God as leader, but they won’t allow Communists.

The loonies are mostly gone, replaced by more competent crooks who keep power depending on how they split loot.
 
Whiteshore

Whiteshore

Sorairo said:
The loonies are mostly gone, replaced by more competent crooks who keep power depending on how they split loot.
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So, when was the "height" of the era the Bantustans were run by total lunatics and which Bantustan was the one which saw their leader become "Fuhrer" or "Emperor"?
 

Sorairo

Whiteshore said:
So, when was the "height" of the era the Bantustans were run by total lunatics and which Bantustan was the one which saw their leader become "Fuhrer" or "Emperor"?
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The tail end of the Special Period, when the semi-competent old administrators had been picked off, overcrowding was at its worst, aid was barely coming in, and no one could coordinate. Only the strong survived the 90s.
 

Lalli

Whiteshore said:
And in the case of Swaziland/Eswatini, not being surrounded entirely by South Africa also helps.
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It is Lesotho which is totally surrounded by SA not Swaziland in OTL. So Swaziland has basically as easy as in OTL. Lesotho probably has bit more diffcult times when it is still surrounded by SA and its bantustans and these are pretty shitty places.
 

Sorairo

Lalli said:
It is Lesotho which is totally surrounded by SA not Swaziland in OTL. So Swaziland has basically as easy as in OTL. Lesotho probably has bit more diffcult times when it is still surrounded by SA and its bantustans and these are pretty shitty places.
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As a member of the Commonwealth, Lesotho is fully backed and supported by the IF, giving a large degree of stability. The other Bantustans are expressly forbidden from having armed soldiers of a foreign nation on their soil unless they wanted nuclear extermination, so they are lot less stable. UN aid is inspected by the South Africans before they let anything in to stop guns going to non-criminals - that wasn't a typo.
 

Lalli

TheDetailer said:
How are the Nordic countries, Benelux, and Armenia ITTL?
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Regarding Nordic countries Norway, Denmark and Iceland are probably quiet same as in OTL when for them history has not gone very differently from OTL. Sweden might be bit different when it is actually allied nation. And probably Sweden has too bit bigger Finnish population even despite Finland being free now. Perhasp even Finnish language has much better situation in Sweden than in OTL. Finland is pretty different from OTL when it was under Soviet opression almost 30 years. And Finland has too bigger Russian population, smaller Swedish speaker population and the country is bit poorer than in OTL.

Benelux is probably quiet similar as in OTL.

Hard to say about Armenia.
 

Drizzt

Yikes, just yikes. Everything I've thought when reading this has pretty much already been written by others.
So I'll add my 2 cents about SA "getting away with": The way the sanctions regime is holding on by a thread, I'd envision some sort of "compromise" in which they get recognition with the clause in place, in exchange for granting the International Community full access to the Bantustans for aid shipments and the like. Pushed for by an unofficial coalition of those wanting to make money in SA and those who are motivated by a genuine desire to acutally help the people in the Bantustans instead of engaging in ultimately futile moral grandstanding. Justified with the argument that it's better to abandon the sanctions, while they still can still demand a quid pro pro for it than having them fall apart.
 

Emperor of Pennsylvania

Holy shit, South Africa is batshit insane. I actually wanted to punch the screen when finding out how Lusitania was treating the refugees. And the Bantustans are quite possibly the worst place on Earth. Thank god Mandela escaped with his life.

Though, I do wonder: why hasn't the population of the Bantustans reached a stable level due to all of the mass death? Unless their population is somehow growing at a massive rate, I don't see how they could still be overpopulated by the 21st century.


And I'd imagine that South Africa and Ethiopia have missiles aimed at each other at all times.

Sorairo said:
South Africa may be fine with chomos, serial killers, drug lords and people who believe they are God as leader, but they won’t allow Communists.
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Hmm. Does Korea welcome Communist immigration? It was mentioned that they were one of the only countries with a positive view of communism in the 21st century.
 

Sorairo

Emperor of Pennsylvania said:
Though, I do wonder: why hasn't the population of the Bantustans reached a stable level due to all of the mass death? Unless their population is somehow growing at a massive rate, I don't see how they could still be overpopulated by the 21st century.
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They have had their populations reduced to 'manageable' levels, but the rate of births is also sky high due to the total lack of contraceptives. Since there is little medical access, women often try to purposefully miscarriage or even dispose of the baby post-birth.

And Korea is too ethnonationalist to allow Non-Koreans in.

South Africa does not aim its missiles at military targets. They are aimed at civilian groundbursts in Rio, Tokyo, DC, Mumbai, New York, London, Paris, etc to intentionally maximise potential casualties and economic damage. They don't want to fight a military nuclear war, they want to make any ITO incursion so deadly that no one would dare make a move. South Africa's nukes would kill more people in a few hours than the entire Chinese and Second World War put together. For good measure, they would likely nuke many of the more troublesome Bantustans.
 
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Drizzt

Sorairo said:
They have had their populations reduced to 'manageable' levels, but the rate of births is also sky high due to the total lack of contraceptives. Since there is little medical access, women often try to purposefully miscarriage or even dispose of the baby post-birth.
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Wouldn't quite work like that IMHO. If the Banustans are that cut off from decent medical care, then the lack of contraceptives would indeed mean lots of young women getting pregnant. However it would also mean childbirth and infant mortality would rise to pre-industrialization levels leaving the number of "successful pregnancies per female born" wouldn't not that high. For all the wrong reasons obviously, but still.
The way you describe it is basically them having the opposite of having it both ways. Pre-industrialization levels of pregnancies, horrid living standards and yet somehow low levels of childbirth and infant mortality.
 

Sorairo

Drizzt said:
Wouldn't quite work like that IMHO. If the Banustans are that cut off from decent medical care, then the lack of contraceptives would indeed mean lots of young women getting pregnant. However it would also mean childbirth and infant mortality would rise to pre-industrialization levels leaving the number of "successful pregnancies per female born" wouldn't not that high. For all the wrong reasons obviously, but still.
The way you describe it is basically them having the opposite of having it both ways. Pre-industrialization levels of pregnancies, horrid living standards and yet somehow low levels of childbirth and infant mortality.
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Oh, the infant mortality is sky high, no doubt about that. It's just relatively few children reach adulthood, especially with how many pregnant women have HIV/AIDS.
 

Sorairo

Oh, and one final thing I came up with: a Political Compass - Footprint of Mussolini edition, featuring all the world leaders ITTL who never quite got the chance to show off their potential/full scale of their evil.

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