Wrapped in Flames: The Great American War and Beyond

[EnglishCanuck]

Well, so much for that. The eventual fate of the prisoners is going to be interesting, definitely. If the punishments are too severe, British-American relations are liable to get even worse, which at this point would mean more shooting and more death. If the punishments are mere slaps on the wrist, it would anger many people in Britain and especially Canada.

It's a fine line for the Anglo-Canadians to walk. In Britain the fate of the Fenians deemed pirates will be seen as straight forward, but there's going to be a significant chunk of the Irish-American (and American in general) population who view them as heroes fighting in a just revolutionary cause. The other Fenians will have mixed reputations. Anyone captured after debacles will get slightly less attention, but those who fought at Black Creek will be seen as heroes who fought in a valiant last stand for liberty. As ironic as that is.

Canadians want them to hang, Americans want to hang laurels on them.

The last paragraph seemed odd to me, unless as I believe the highlighted mention of Keogh is supposed to be of the Shannon? Or am I not understanding something?

Good catch! Thank you for that!

 

[EnglishCanuck]

This is where questioning the wisdom comes into play: not wanting a big war with the Union is going to make London do things Ottawa doesn't want done.

London is also aware right now that unecessary martyrs make for revolutionary heroes. The need for justice in Canada will be balanced against the need for peaceful relations with the United States, while also not looking like they aren't willing to go to war should the need arise. It's one of those very delicate situations that can only be navigated with tact... something singularly lacking in recent Anglo-American relations.

 

[Nightstorm86]

Ugh with the track record of McClellan diplomacy is gonna go horrible and that is hopefully the straw that breaks the camels back cause this is a shitshow for America. I my consolation is that the democrats and McClellan will be blamed for it and the reps and the rads will probably do some soul searching and after awhile and look to the country and how the democrats have been steering it will atleast for a bit and Lincoln is still alive and he's as canny as can be so he can mend it and bring some semblance of sanity to the Union.

also yeah I don't think the us will become a great power at this stage for now but if there's one I know about America is that it's can't be beat in terms of pluck and stubbornness to reach to the top no matter how many times it's been beat down mostly by itself right now. This is coming from a non American who loves the spirit and dream and history of America

Also there's definitely gonna be a massive investigation into the corruption and collusion with the fenians that's gonna ruin the McClellan administration and the democrats as whole even more and I'm gonna surprised when successor manages to do worse also I think the successor maybe is probably not gonna live his whole life without getting atleast an attempted assassination on him.

And there's going to be alot of people thrown to the Wolves biggest of whom would be butler which I think nobody is gonna mind and McClellan gets another blow to his already ruined credibility and i seriously laugh at the previous mention that's he's going to be a Hayes like figure.

and finally there's got to be alot of anger from the population to the fenians that could lead alot of ethic violence against the Irish cause of the mess they lead the America into but im just speculating here but people will blame something and the Irish are biggest target next to Britain.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Ugh with the track record of McClellan diplomacy is gonna go horrible and that is hopefully the straw that breaks the camels back cause this is a shitshow for America. I my consolation is that the democrats and McClellan will be blamed for it and the reps and the rads will probably do some soul searching and after awhile and look to the country and how the democrats have been steering it will atleast for a bit and Lincoln is still alive and he's as canny as can be so he can mend it and bring some semblance of sanity to the Union.

The Democrats are certainly working hard to cement themselves as the worst political party in American history through the 1860s...

The good news is that the Republican Party can turn themselves around. The bad news is they are essentially fighting a rearguard action against the rising patriotic men of the Radical Democracy Party who want to blame both the Republicans and the Democrats for all of the United State's political and economic woes. That bi partisan anger resonates, and in 1868 it's going to remain a problem. But don't worry, the Democrats are also about to find "fight for your life" territory!

also yeah I don't think the us will become a great power at this stage for now but if there's one I know about America is that it's can't be beat in terms of pluck and stubbornness to reach to the top no matter how many times it's been beat down mostly by itself right now. This is coming from a non American who loves the spirit and dream and history of America

Coming from a country with warm relations, but almost casual disregard from the US (and a few invasions and political meddlings) I tend to have a more nuanced view on the American spirit. Definitely love what people think it should stand for, but tend to be less than enthused by the results.

That said, examining the different American spirit that will emerge from all this is going to be fun. Let's just say that as soon as the US gets around to properly banning slavery, everyone will be wondering why they didn't do it sooner. An existing Confederate States will also keep the fire of abolitionism and freedom going far stronger and far longer, with a different view on civil rights in the long run.

Also there's definitely gonna be a massive investigation into the corruption and collusion with the fenians that's gonna ruin the McClellan administration and the democrats as whole even more and I'm gonna surprised when successor manages to do worse also I think the successor maybe is probably not gonna live his whole life without getting atleast an attempted assassination on him.

And there's going to be alot of people thrown to the Wolves biggest of whom would be butler which I think nobody is gonna mind and McClellan gets another blow to his already ruined credibility and i seriously laugh at the previous mention that's he's going to be a Hayes like figure.

I've got a whole chapter coming up dedicated to this, and then we're off to the Confederate election of 1867 after I tie up loose ends in Europe! Let's just say that with McClellan being so willing to look the other way (or just not canny enough to care about the potential problems) he's going to get caught up in this sudden storm. That this will also mean he had to be distracted from the pet issues he has will also end up a problem...

and finally there's got to be alot of anger from the population to the fenians that could lead alot of ethic violence against the Irish cause of the mess they lead the America into but im just speculating here but people will blame something and the Irish are biggest target next to Britain.

The anti-Irish (and broader WASP anti-immigrant sentiment in general) is going to be a lingering cultural factor in the US. One that will have... less than positive aspects going forward.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Chapter 136: We’re All Americans​

“The general emerged from the train at Buffalo in a cloud of cigar smoke. With a regiment of infantry and a company of cavalry at his back, one of the greatest unsung heroes of the Great American War had stepped foot along the frontier to finally settle accounts. Ulysses S. Grant had come to put an end to the Fenian disturbances along the border.

This was but a part of his whirlwind tour which had begun on the 2nd of June with a rapid transit to the new Aroostook border, up to the steadily rising Fort Montgomery on the Quebec border, a jaunt to Ogdensburg, and now Buffalo. At each stop he had proclaimed that the Federal government demanded peace on the frontier. With the stick of Federal troops and arrest warrants in one hand, and the bread of offers of free transit home and no questions asked to any Fenian who desired it in the other, he was dispersing the Fenian army with little difficulty. Some truculent individuals refused to leave and were gently taken into custody, while the vast majority of the Fenians, now seeing the fighting as essentially over, took the general up on his offer. Thousands of men began streaming home with little more than a promise not to take up arms against Canada again.

Buffalo though, was where the chief concentration of militant Fenians remained. It was estimated 2,000 were still congregating in the town, hopeful for a chance to attack Britain and relieve their fellows so recently captured by the British. The fact that a barge load of Fenians sat imprisoned on the Niagara River under the watchful eye of American gunboats seemed to deter them little. In fact, some seemed emboldened, with many rescues having been undertaken with Fenians being picked up in ones and twos by boaters under the watchful eye of the navy, whose main concern was ensuring they didn’t cross the border.

Grant had, ironically, come to town amidst cheers from many Fenians. They were soldiers who had fought with him across the West from 1862-64, and even many in Buffalo that day had fought against him. The old rivalries had been put aside in favor of striking at the true enemy, the British[1]. Grant though, had little time for this trans-Atlantic rivalry. He had been ordered to disperse the Fenians and he would disperse them.

In a speech to men, not only of Fenian extraction, but soldiers called up from the interior to provide security, Grant reminded them all that they were soldiers. Or had been. He congratulated brave men “willing to fight and die for a noble cause” but cautioned “men must not bring the quarrels of Europe to our doorstep.” He implored men not to risk lives and livelihood for a cause that was not, inevitably, doomed. This was confirmed by the reports of the failure of the rising in Ireland, and by reports all along the frontier that the invasion had failed. Nowhere had Fenian forces successfully taken Canadian territory, and everywhere the Fenians were disbanding or being taken into custody.

General O’Neill himself was a prisoner across the border, and Sweeney was facing comfortable incarceration at Albany. Grant said “the game is up” and the remaining Fenians took him at his word. Especially as he promised the government would do all it could to free those imprisoned in Canada…” - The Emergency of 1867, Howard Senior, 1986

“It was a difficult situation. Thousands of Americans were now prisoners in Canada, and all of them had been engaged in unprovoked violence against the Canadian people. Unlike after 1864 when the thousands of American prisoners had been released, these were not soldiers engaged and protected under the rules of war, but fillibusters coming to annex Canada in a mad scheme to liberate Ireland. With some 400 Canadians dead, the public cried for blood.

Macdonald now faced another international crisis a mere year into the creation of Canada. When Fenian prisoners were marched through Toronto, mobs swore, struck and hurled garbage at the captured men. The military escort had to do more to keep the Fenians from being torn apart rather than prevent their escape.. They were dispatched across the new country, from Toronto, to London, Kingston, Montreal, Quebec, and Ottawa. Housing them proved a problem, and it was hoped to parole as many as possible before trying the ring leaders.

Unfortunately, Macdonald’s hope for a simple solution, was at odds with public opinion. Worse, his old adversary, George Brown, had returned at precisely the wrong moment.

Brown had been enjoying his honeymoon in Europe, but had returned just at the tail end of the 1867 crisis. From the Globe, fiery articles had been running daily regarding the “Fenian Menace” which was on the minds of every Canadian in the waning days of June. Brown, still not agreeing with the centralizing direction he saw Macdonald embarking on, immediately took to the presses to demand justice for Canadians, which meant death to Fenians.

“It must be the policy of this government to mete out to the Fenians a hard justice. Once and for all we must make it known that a crime against Canada shall be faced with stern force and unyielding might. Those piratical bands which have in past weeks preyed on the Canadian population must be treated as the enemies of all humanity, and met with the noose.”

What the public desired in the dangerous days of 1867 was for each Fenian to get a long drop with a short rope. Macdonald however, rejected any such notion with show trials, and ordered that fair trials would be undertaken. However, even he realized that the process of trying over 4,000 Fenian prisoners would be an arduous one and some expediency would have to be offered. Thus, military tribunals were established. Macdonald’s familiarity with them, both from the war and in the aftermath of the 1837-38 Patriot Rebellions, meant he realized that they could be both remarkably lenient and also unflinchingly cruel.

This required partnering with Governor General Monck, who, acting on orders from Whitehall, leaned on his officers and officials not to use the death penalty. Men who were captured without arms were simply ordered deported, at a stroke sending 500 Fenians home. Men captured under arms were divided into two categories, those who had surrendered after a battle, and those who had largely surrendered without a fight. The latter were again deported, sending a further 1,200 Fenians home.

It was that former category, some 2,000 men, who would prove more troublesome. Most of those had been caught fighting, and many had undoubtedly killed or wounded Canadians. This was a more sensitive matter. Almost all of them were American citizens, so executing them would provoke a response. However, some had undoubtedly committed crimes worthy of the death penalty.

Fenian generals were now celebrities in captivity. Most had been moved to the Kingston Penitentiary where they could be watched not just by the civil authorities, but under close scrutiny from the garrison in Kingston, strengthened against any further attempts by the Fenians to cross the frontier. However, the biggest nuisance would be the hordes of reporters practically besieging the jail begging for interviews with the Fenian officers.

O’Neill in particular was famous. He had occupied parts of Canada longer than any other force, and led his men in the first independent Irish formation against Britain in centuries. Praised by the presses in America, he was called an Irish national hero, while the now virulent turning Anglophobic press praised his ability to “show John Bull what was what” with an American spirit.

Even Macdonald expressed a desire to hang him, but held off, hoping that the public passions would cool down. He wouldn’t even schedule a trial. For the other Fenians though, that was expectation.

The first large trial of Fenian officers, a gaggle of fifty captains, was held on June 20th. They were led under heavy guard to the courthouse, a packed in with curious onlookers and reporters, a ring of bayonet wielding redcoats keeping the crowd at bay. In the opening remarks they were all charged with breaking the peace, theft, arson of public property, and manslaughter[2]. The judge, alongside his military fellows, declared that they were not properly protected by any rules of war, and so the military tribunal was out to determine their culpability in the invasion.

When asked for any words in their defence, one Fenian sprang up and declared “We are all Americans here! We have no need to recognize this mistrial of justice! If you wish, hang us and be done!” This prompted cheers from the other Fenian officers, shouts of “Down with the Queen” and other patriotic American slogans. The courtroom became uncontrollable thereafter and the days proceedings were suspended.

Leaning hard on this tribunal, Macdonald encouraged the militia officers and civil officials to press for hard labor. Even if there was unequivocal evidence the men had ordered murder. This was issued in the strictest secrecy as Brown, and now other emerging liberals, banged the drum of vengeance loud. So loud that even Macdonald’s own supporters were inquiring why some of the worst offenders were not simply hanged. Kingston was the perfect place for it, some reasoned.

The Fenian’s outburst revealed a basic truth though. The Fenians were American citizens. Their fates would be inextricably linked to an American response, and there was no saying that the United States would not take exception to the execution, however justified, of her citizens…” – Nation Maker: The Life of John A. Macdonald, Richard Chartrand, Queens University Publishing, 2005

“The Fenian trials were a divisive headache. Some Americans, McClellan included, believed that they ‘deserved whatever they got’ but they were so popular amongst Irish-American circles, a group that had come out for McClellan in 1864, that it would be political suicide to ignore their demands that the Fenians be freed at once.

Such a demand was, of course, impossible to accede to, but McClellan had competing priorities. Britain had responded to the crisis by sending more warships to North America, and the navy had already been forced to step up its own patrols along the coast. There were now almost 20,000 soldiers on the frontier with Canada to keep the peace, and it might require more. Even with the Fenians dispersing, there were many who feared they would return.

Seymour had already taken two direct and terse meetings with the British ambassador, Edward Thornton. Thankfully for McClellan, Thornton was not a war hawk. He had a skill for defusing situations, and had been appointed to the United States after smoothing over relations with the Empire of Brazil who had cut diplomatic ties with the British in 1863[3]. Now, he sought to avert a second war in a decade with the United States.

Matters had not been helped by his first instructions from London. There had been a, for Palmerston, characteristically blunt demand, bordering on order, for the United States to disperse the Fenians operating along the border. Even Seymour’s ability for compromise was strained by such a demand, and only a softer intervention a few days later with a diplomatic request had saved relations. However, it had come with a stern warning that Britain was not afraid to risk war with the United States should they continue to “materially and politically support the Fenian Brotherhood in the invasion of British territory.”

McClellan of course balked at such demands. Incorrectly he assumed that Thornton was pushing a hard line. The truth was far different, but McClellan could not see it as he could not simply sit down with Thornton and had to relay all information through Seymour. But with the crisis looming, this would never do, and Seymour and the President crafted a somewhat clever plan to both bypass protocol and public opinion.

Thornton was invited by Ellen to the White House to have a luncheon with the ladies as a show of good faith alongside his wife. At the luncheon, McClellan appeared to visit his wife, and as if by accident, ran into Thornton. He suggested a walk through the grounds so the ladies would not bore him with trivial talk. Walking then as gentlemen, they could discuss matters face to face.

Here McClellan learned Thornton was not a warhawk, and Thornton learned that McClellan had no desire to materially support the Fenians. However, Thornton reiterated that some justice had to be meted out to men who had invaded Canada. McClellan pressed on whether the men would be executed, and Thornton assured the president that the Fenian prisoners in Canada would not face the death penalty. At worst, life imprisonment, but he assured him that the Fenians were instead being sentenced to years of hard labor.

Finally, the most difficult matter. The crew of the Shannon. They were to a man American citizens. McClellan implored Thornton to push the British government not to execute the men as pirates. Thornton reminded McClellan that the men had used the American flag as camouflage for acts of indisputable piracy in British waters. “We could expect no less from your government were the flag a Union Jack fluttering over a Confederate pirate,” Thornton would say.

This would not satisfy the American public who, McCllelan said, would demand war. Thornton reiterated that neither he or his government wanted war, but if compelled as they had been in 1862[4], they would fight again. McClellan said he could not flout the will of the American people. But beyond the posturing, both men reiterated their commitment to peace and bringing a practical conclusion to the current crisis.

McClellan left the meeting with some hope, but now fretting over a trial an ocean away. He would soon have cause to fret about trials much closer to home. The level of his government’s involvement in the ongoing crisis was about to be revealed…” - I Can Do It All: The Trials of George B. McClellan, Alfred White, 1992, Aurora Publishing

----

1] True. The Fenians were an all over group of veterans with many from the South coming north to fight for Ireland, and taking up arms alongside men they had been shooting at, in some cases, merely a year earlier in 1865 during the OTL 1866 invasion.

2] A crime that was on the books. Considering the mass scale of the accused and the near impossibility of figuring out who fired the fatal shots, very few Fenians would be charged with murder. The historical prisoners were mostly charged with lesser crimes for this reason.

3] True to OTL. Britain is doing some foreign damage control with relations after the war here too. Even with how high handed they might be, they do not desire another war with America.

4] This is an American author saying what a British person in 1867 believes. Most Americans blame Britain on her own, but some blame Lincoln for causing Britain’s entry into the war. It’s a complicated topic to say the least.

 

[DAv]

Looking like that they're trying desperately to thread the needle without both nations being pushed to breaking point. I can't imagine British opinion will be softened when the McClellan Administration's involvement in all of this comes out neither. I think you're missing the fourth footnote as well.

 

[DarkAvenger]

You left out footnote [4] in the post.

 

[PaulJones202718]

WHEN it becomes obvious that they had help, there's going to be a lot of dancing around to do.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Looking like that they're trying desperately to thread the needle without both nations being pushed to breaking point. I can't imagine British opinion will be softened when the McClellan Administration's involvement in all of this comes out neither.

Indeed they are. No one actually wants a war, but this is way, way worse than the Fenian raids OTL, to the point Britain has a way larger garrison than they did in the period (closer to 20,000 rather than peaking at about 16,000 OTL) meaning that Britain takes this very seriously. They'll want some comeuppance, but they can't push too hard. In turn, McClellan can't really be conciliatory since he needs the public to see him as safeguarding American honor and interests, but a war is also not a good idea for him. If he can nip the whole thing in the bud it's great.

Sadly...

I think you're missing the fourth footnote as well.

You left out footnote [4] in the post.

Thank you! Fixed!

 

[EnglishCanuck]

WHEN it becomes obvious that they had help, there's going to be a lot of dancing around to do.

Even OTL the British suspected that there was some American collusion, but here it's been so much worse. Granted, only a little has come from the highest offices in the land. Much more has been through the usual shady dealings of the peacetime army, unscrupulous vendors wanting to see the British knocked down a peg, and then the so called Irish Navy just being bought up by Fenians at post-war dirt cheap prices. Not that it will soften the scandal...

 

[Nenshou Yuuki]

I predict the Shannon's crew is going to be executed, piracy on the British heartlands is not going to be tolerated, regardless of how the Union public feels. And Britain will care less and less as they find out the sheer scope of the involvement of McClellan's government. Number 10 will probably think the White House is run by fools if they think McClellan genuinely knew nothing.

As Canada, King can push for hard labour as much as he wants, its entirely possible that some Fenians will meet the noose. There might be a vengeful enough judge who decides to go rogue.

 

[Kennedy Forever]

McClellan once again showing his incompetence as President. I feel bad for Seymour having to always put out his boss's fire.

 

[Nenshou Yuuki]

The US is also going to be hard pressed for allies in this instance, no European powers are going to want to encourage piracy in European Waters regardless of how they feel about Britain that is not a precedent they want encourage.

 

[PaulJones202718]

This is why it's called the Era Of BAD Feelings. The wrong man is in charge at the wrong time and his successor is even worse.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

I predict the Shannon's crew is going to be executed, piracy on the British heartlands is not going to be tolerated, regardless of how the Union public feels. And Britain will care less and less as they find out the sheer scope of the involvement of McClellan's government. Number 10 will probably think the White House is run by fools if they think McClellan genuinely knew nothing.

On this I will say, pretty spot on. The British are taking a dim view of what is obviously piracy in their home waters, and American citizens be damned. They can (accurately I would assess) claim that the US would be as unmerciful as they intend to be should the same happen in their waters.

As for thinking that the White House is run by fools... well, Palmerston has thought that since 1862.

As Canada, King can push for hard labour as much as he wants, its entirely possible that some Fenians will meet the noose. There might be a vengeful enough judge who decides to go rogue.

Macdonald does face that disconcerting possibility. Though he is quickly discovering that he might have to build new prisons just to accommodate all the prisoners Canada is taking on...

 

[EnglishCanuck]

McClellan once again showing his incompetence as President. I feel bad for Seymour having to always put out his boss's fire.

A man who disdained politics and politicians being out of his depth is not shocking! Seymour is, by the end of 1867, going to be thoroughly tired of his boss!

This is why it's called the Era Of BAD Feelings. The wrong man is in charge at the wrong time and his successor is even worse.

An apt way to sum it up!

 

[EnglishCanuck]

The US is also going to be hard pressed for allies in this instance, no European powers are going to want to encourage piracy in European Waters regardless of how they feel about Britain that is not a precedent they want encourage.

Oh yes. Once again, similar to how the US was very alone after the European nations effectively outlawed privateering in 1856, the US is finding itself bereft of anyone who would offer them diplomatic sympathy.

Russia? They just put down a major Polish rebellion, and have no sympathy for rebellious groups - the Confederacy included. Prussia is the same.

France? No thank you, they don't want anyone bringing privateering back as they seek to expand their reach in the Americas!

Austria, Italy, Portugal, the Netherlands, Belgium? Not interested!

Spain? Well, look at who is now squatting above Cuba. You think they want to encourage private armed ships operating in anybodies waters? No thank you!

Once again, the US is very much alone!

 

[mundi_mundi]

This is great as usual @EnglishCanuck, please keep it up. Personally I'm also desperately curious to see how we dodge a second US/UK war here... wait have you actually confirmed this doesn't turn into another war?

Do you have a real-world parallel for how you see your alt Canada developing? I get some shades of Finland:

• Low pop density,
• Agrarian with some industry,
• Militarised out of suspicion of a much larger neighbour who they've got 'history' with; and
• A risk of being part of larger countries' power games.

Also, cold.

 

[naraht]

This is great as usual @EnglishCanuck, please keep it up. Personally I'm also desperately curious to see how we dodge a second US/UK war here... wait have you actually confirmed this doesn't turn into another war?

Do you have a real-world parallel for how you see your alt Canada developing? I get some shades of Finland:

• Low pop density,
• Agrarian with some industry,
• Militarised out of suspicion of a much larger neighbour who they've got 'history' with; and
• A risk of being part of larger countries' power games.

Also, cold.

I think cold should be in there at least three times.

 

[Athelstane]

I think cold should be in there at least three times.