Assume that the slavery issue is solved early in US history and the USA decides to "expand democracy to as many as possible." How large could the USA have become?
How large could the USA have become if it was very expansionist?
You have to solve the religion issue as well. Or the race issue in general. I'm not sure many Americans would like the idea of such a large population of brown catholics getting to vote.
Is the US really looking to spread Democracy, or is it just a guise to expand?
Scenario One :
The Iberian Union in the the 1600s never dissolved and allies with Austria-Hungary, along with other minors powers such as the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Venice, and swallows up the Ottoman Empire's lands in Europe and the Maghreb. They became a power on its own and swallows the Luisiana basin in a war with France sometime in the 1700s. Somehow, a republican revolution in Iberia forced the Crown to flee to the Americas, uniting the Viceroyalties of Brasil, Nueva Granada, Perú, Argentina, Chile, Guyana, México, Cuba, the Antilles, Hispaniola, and Luisiana into the Estados Unidos de América, or the EUA ( the United States ). To keep the new states loyal, each state sends a representative to a parliament. Each state is divided into provinces and goes down to the local area afterwards. Reforms after reforms would push for the EUA for democratisation for the following 18th and 19th centuries before the Crown is effectively cut off from most legislative duties. A series of wars with the English North America colonies somewhere would bit each of it off and by the 20th century, would swallow up the entire Americas except a few islands in the Caribbean and Russian America.
Just a short take, feel free to dissect possibilities and the like.
The Iberian Union in the the 1600s never dissolved and allies with Austria-Hungary, along with other minors powers such as the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Venice, and swallows up the Ottoman Empire's lands in Europe and the Maghreb. They became a power on its own and swallows the Luisiana basin in a war with France sometime in the 1700s. Somehow, a republican revolution in Iberia forced the Crown to flee to the Americas, uniting the Viceroyalties of Brasil, Nueva Granada, Perú, Argentina, Chile, Guyana, México, Cuba, the Antilles, Hispaniola, and Luisiana into the Estados Unidos de América, or the EUA ( the United States ). To keep the new states loyal, each state sends a representative to a parliament. Each state is divided into provinces and goes down to the local area afterwards. Reforms after reforms would push for the EUA for democratisation for the following 18th and 19th centuries before the Crown is effectively cut off from most legislative duties. A series of wars with the English North America colonies somewhere would bit each of it off and by the 20th century, would swallow up the entire Americas except a few islands in the Caribbean and Russian America.
Just a short take, feel free to dissect possibilities and the like.
The implied POD is way later than that, still I´m sure he wants our USA and not a random one in the infinitum of alternate universes.
Well, this is alternate history after all. Shouldn't the different universes have different versions of « USA » ?
Anaxagoras
Banned
No reason it can't be both. The British, for their part, genuinely believed their imperial expansion benefited the people under their rule, but they were also quick to make a profit from it all.
The US was pretty expansionist IOTL... TBH I'm not sure how much bigger the core US could get: it could take Canada or Mexico, but then it's going to incorporate lots of people who don't really want to be part of the US, which might end up increasing internal divisions and making the US weaker on the whole. It could probably do more overseas colonial expansion, though, although I'm not sure where its most likely targets would be.
Yes.
Yes.
Only Northern Mexico, the Mesoamerican core is too much IMO.The US was pretty expansionist IOTL... TBH I'm not sure how much bigger the core US could get: it could take Canada or Mexico, but then it's going to incorporate lots of people who don't really want to be part of the US, which might end up increasing internal divisions and making the US weaker on the whole. It could probably do more overseas colonial expansion, though, although I'm not sure where its most likely targets would be.
Yes.
The US was pretty expansionist IOTL... TBH I'm not sure how much bigger the core US could get: it could take Canada or Mexico, but then it's going to incorporate lots of people who don't really want to be part of the US, which might end up increasing internal divisions and making the US weaker on the whole. It could probably do more overseas colonial expansion, though, although I'm not sure where its most likely targets would be.
Yes.
I've always wondered what a more extreme US would be like. An oligarchy of WASP Americans (maybe twenty or thirty percent of the population) having the franchise in an apartheid style system. A bigger military tradition within that demographic where the states have their own personal armies backed up by the feds with a large paramilitary presence for other policing matters. Especially in the Mexican territories and other regions where there is a large rebellious presence.
Assuming a POD in the war of 1812 and multiple wars with various colonial powers they could take a lot over three hundred years. A decisive victory in a second war with the UK could give them big chunks of Canada and the Caribbean. It might take two or three wars but completely eating Mexico doesn't seem too out of the question. First take the underpopulated north. Second takes half the rest and the third is cleaning up the rump state. A war in the 1830s, 1860s and 1880s seems like a reasonable spread. And once that is done cleaning up the rest of central america shouldn't be a major issue (taking control of any canal would probably be a priority). Guerrillas in the jungle would make it very,very bloody but....
An alternate Berlin Conference could net a large chunk of Africa and more wars with Spain could net the Philippines. I imagine a situation similar to what happened in Hawaii OTL could happen in other nations. Japan is a possibility. And certainly grabbing a hundred other little pieces of territory here and there wouldn't be difficult.
The US probably would end up as a state with few friends and many enemies. It'd probably end up looking like a more realistic version of the Draka.
Some of the Caribbean is quite doable (the US almost annexed the Dominican Republic, tried to buy Cuba, and of course did acquire both Puerto Rico and the Danish West Indies). Canada requires a fairly early POD, but could certainly be taken in the Revolution, e.g. if the Franco-Spanish Invasion goes through, while more of Mexico is doable with any of several PODs.
As others have noted, racism is going to be a major limiter; it's one of the big reasons the US started prepping the Philippines for independence only a few years after having violently suppressed their independence movement (once racists realized that a US Philippines meant that Filipinos would be able to immigrate to the US without restrictions, they suddenly began reconsidering whether the colony was worth it). So I don't see Africa being a major target for expansion; I'd expect more focus on the Americas, with maybe scattered islands and ports all over the world to support American business.
As others have noted, racism is going to be a major limiter; it's one of the big reasons the US started prepping the Philippines for independence only a few years after having violently suppressed their independence movement (once racists realized that a US Philippines meant that Filipinos would be able to immigrate to the US without restrictions, they suddenly began reconsidering whether the colony was worth it). So I don't see Africa being a major target for expansion; I'd expect more focus on the Americas, with maybe scattered islands and ports all over the world to support American business.
Best way to get a HUGE US is post1900. Have a nasty alt-WWII with a nasty totalitarian régime running most of Europe (competent Nazis, Bosheviks or Imperial Russians or Germans), and Britain and her Empire end up having to play by US rules. Eventually the US expands to take in all 'civilized' countries, and the rest have to recognize her hegemony, at least.
Pretty dystopian, but possible.
Said US could be, functionally, a World Government.
Pretty dystopian, but possible.
Said US could be, functionally, a World Government.
unprincipled peter
Donor
If OTL US isn't the definition of expansionist, I don't know what is. Formal land grabs possibly could have achieved Canada, but they tried a couple times and couldn't do it. maybe a few islands. maybe gotten involved in the Scramble for Africa, and gotten some, but not anything major.
Bottom line is that OTL formal annexation took a LOT of territory.
Once you move away from looking at colored territories on maps, the US took over economic hegemony in most of the globe. which is a major reason they didn't need to pick up more territories.
How greedy can one country be?
Bottom line is that OTL formal annexation took a LOT of territory.
Once you move away from looking at colored territories on maps, the US took over economic hegemony in most of the globe. which is a major reason they didn't need to pick up more territories.
How greedy can one country be?