R: Christendom spent most of its history…

Short version -- in the Fourth Century, Christianity gained legal, official, and majority status in the Roman Empire, while converting a number of other peoples and kingdoms (Armenia, Ethiopia, the Germans, etc); then in the Fifth Century, the Western Roman Empire underwent civilization collapse, and some parts of the empire even fell to pagans (like Britain); then Islam came, and Christendom lost a lot of people and territory; and they continued to suffer losses into the Ninth Century.

Now, while Western Christendom and Christianity as a whole did manage to make recoveries during the High and Late Middle Ages, it wasn’t until the Age of Exploration (and the Dawn of European Imperialism) that the demographic and economic impact of Christianity as a share of the world managed to surpass their pre-Islamic heyday. In other words, Christendom spent about a millennium trying to recover from the Fall of the Roman Empire; or put another way, when you factor in pre-Constantine, Christianity spent a majority of its history under “siege”.

Thinking about the history of the west and its religion in this context, something else hits you -- that as late as the early 19th Century, an overwhelming majority of the World’s Christian Population either lived in Europe or in an active European Colony. Meaning the modern state of affairs -- where one can easily enough distinguish between the Status of Europe and the Status of Christianity as a Whole -- is actually, on the scale of the religion’s history, a fairly new one.

What do you guys think of this historical framing? Does it help when looking at Late Antiquity, Medieval History, or the Early Modern Period? Or “big picture” AH scenarios concerning thereof?
 
Short version -- in the Fourth Century, Christianity gained legal, official, and majority status in the Roman Empire, while converting a number of other peoples and kingdoms (Armenia, Ethiopia, the Germans, etc); then in the Fifth Century, the Western Roman Empire underwent civilization collapse, and some parts of the empire even fell to pagans (like Britain); then Islam came, and Christendom lost a lot of people and territory; and they continued to suffer losses into the Ninth Century.

Now, while Western Christendom and Christianity as a whole did manage to make recoveries during the High and Late Middle Ages, it wasn’t until the Age of Exploration (and the Dawn of European Imperialism) that the demographic and economic impact of Christianity as a share of the world managed to surpass their pre-Islamic heyday. In other words, Christendom spent about a millennium trying to recover from the Fall of the Roman Empire; or put another way, when you factor in pre-Constantine, Christianity spent a majority of its history under “siege”.

Thinking about the history of the west and its religion in this context, something else hits you -- that as late as the early 19th Century, an overwhelming majority of the World’s Christian Population either lived in Europe or in an active European Colony. Meaning the modern state of affairs -- where one can easily enough distinguish between the Status of Europe and the Status of Christianity as a Whole -- is actually, on the scale of the religion’s history, a fairly new one.

What do you guys think of this historical framing? Does it help when looking at Late Antiquity, Medieval History, or the Early Modern Period? Or “big picture” AH scenarios concerning thereof?


Actually, it is a fairly good vision that you have just considered, furthermore the feeling of siege, which was born with the first persecutions, intensified with the internal struggles in the establishment of a single doctrine that could suit all Christians and could also be used as an instrument of social political union by the state ( which caused many of the early divisions, especially if used as a means to promote imperial power, even the so-called great schism can be seen as a development of this ), with the rise of Islam and its rapid spread, this siege crisis intensified more ( even the power struggles within the hierarchy, given that the only patriarchs left out of the hands of the caliphate were obviously Rome and Constantinople which for some time were often in conflict with each other ) in the end Christianity and Europe became considered as one, at least from the 10th century onwards ( this is particularly valid for Europe of the Latin rite, where the opposition to Byzantium and the Moors / Saracens created this concept of antagonism between Christianity in particular Catholicism and others, above all it was encouraged by the popes who saw as their ultimate project the creation of a unified Christian Res Publica with them at the helm ) the Reformation was needed to begin to break this concept, given that its diffusion split the continent into two/three blocks opposed to each other, quite homogeneous in their beliefs ( France are a separate case ) and in their mutual intolerance, let's say that once the chaos created by the religious wars abated, a sense of affinity between the different confessions returns ( even if with difficulty ) even if initially it manifested itself first among the Protestants, then spread also among the Catholics, also due to the intra-confessional alliances that arose to stem the formation of a monarchy universal ( another concept very similar to the Res Publica, it is normally associated with Catholics ) and maintain the freedoms ( of the Protestants ) hard-won in the previous century



I hope I haven't offended anyone and I've managed to be as simple and clear as possible
 
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As Christianity, unique under the major world religions, started as a lower class religion, not as a religion of the ruling class, I see little issue with it.

Christian communities continued in most of the Islamic world, even if in smaller numbers.

Christianity did spread with, but also without political power.
 
As a framework of historical analysis this falls a little flat on multiple points, but principally I’m going to detail exactly why the idea that framing Christendom as a “besieged religion” in Europe is contra factual. That being said if you isolate it to specific points of early Christian history it is not without merit.

Short version -- in the Fourth Century, Christianity gained legal, official, and majority status in the Roman Empire, while converting a number of other peoples and kingdoms (Armenia, Ethiopia, the Germans, etc); then in the Fifth Century, the Western Roman Empire underwent civilization collapse, and some parts of the empire even fell to pagans (like Britain); then Islam came, and Christendom lost a lot of people and territory; and they continued to suffer losses into the Ninth Century.
While Rome in the west did collapse and Christianity lost political ground in the Mediterranean, it more than made up for it during the centuries which here are claimed to be periods of loss when the Carolingians initiated a period of previously unforeseen expansion of Christian hegemony into Northern Europe, but also a new political mode of Germanic Christianity that was far less religiously tolerant and focused on the conquest of foreign non Christians which was itself informed by Christian social expansion in the 4th century Roman Empire.
Now, while Western Christendom and Christianity as a whole did manage to make recoveries during the High and Late Middle Ages, it wasn’t until the Age of Exploration (and the Dawn of European Imperialism) that the demographic and economic impact of Christianity as a share of the world managed to surpass their pre-Islamic heyday. In other words, Christendom spent about a millennium trying to recover from the Fall of the Roman Empire; or put another way, when you factor in pre-Constantine, Christianity spent a majority of its history under “siege”.
Here is the greatest problem with this entire thesis, which is that Christianism not being political dominant over vast swathes of territory is conflated with “being under siege” which is frankly in my opinion a non sequitur. Suggesting that the Roman Empire had literally anything to do with the lives of the vast majority of people from the first millennia onwards is blatantly not true, the vast majority of people in medieval Europe were simply existing and this included the nobles as well, there was no besiegement, in any way. In fact when you actually include non Christian Europeans (In thus context, pagans and Jews from the 4th century onwards) into the narrative then such a historical framing becomes materially untenable. To quote the Paderborn epic, which generally reveals the mentality of the medieval euro-Christian mindset, we get more clarity.

“What the contrary mind and perverse soul [pagan polytheists in this context, but “the heathen/heretic periphery” in general] refuse to do with persuasion / Let them leap to accomplish when compelled by fear.”

An analysis of the Wendish crusades shows this further, when proselytizing failed force was not just attempted but vehemently encouraged with zeal. Outposts were built in wendish lands, converts were socially isolated from pagan families, customs totally alien to culture were forcibly imposed and the imposed population were referred to as dogs. This is not the mentality of a society under siege, but one that is expanding and perpetuating itself by military conquest and forced conversion of its civilization-political periphery. People under siege develop defensive and retaliatory mindsets (as Jews and samaritans did from 4th-7th Centuries), not ones of expansion, so I would say that applying this historical framing to the early medieval period onward would be to do so without accounting for the vast shift in the political and cultural changes of Christianity from the fourth century to the twelfth. I’m going to refer to these relations of subjugation, forced conversion, and expansion of the pagan periphery as “the Carolingian model” for most of the discussion after this.

What do you guys think of this historical framing? Does it help when looking at Late Antiquity, Medieval History, or the Early Modern Period? Or “big picture” AH scenarios concerning thereof?
This framing is only useful in discussing Christian history from the 1st to 6th centuries CE, from the beginning of the religion to the forced closure of the last active non Christian polytheist font of public discourse. Anything beyond that and I would say that the attempt to fit a square peg into a round hole, and doesn’t account for the upheaval of perspective and political ability for Christianity to enforce itself.

From the 1st to 3rd century Christianity was religion that totally contravened social norms of its era and so was the subject of violent persecution from a hegemonic state, from the 4th to 6th centuries Christianity experienced a dramatic shift in power and the main concern of that era was the enforcing of a correct form of Christianity or the reconciliation, often violently, of schisms within itself. From the 7th to the 8th Century Christianity experienced a territorial decline in the face of the expansion of Islam, but the 9th and 12th centuries were the early period if a renewed period of expansion and subjugation of the non Christian periphery, weather it be Saxony, to Slavia (the land of the wends) in the 12th century and onward. The 13th to early 14th centuries were a period of further expansion through the Crusades but also one of fracturing as the same Crusades that expanded Latin Christendoms political authority in the Levant also trampled under Constantinople and made Byzantium (the primary barrier toward the political expansion of Turco-Persian Islam) a ruin, and the Mongol empires expansion ultimately caused most of those gains to recede especially in Eastern Europe. The 14th century was a period of growth which culminated in the 15th century which was a time of fracturing (Protest/Catholic conflict), but the late 15th and 16th centuries also saw a period of expansion in the Americas despite Christianity losing its political ground fully in the Levant. The 17th-18th centuries greatly furthered this expansion and from the 19th century onward that facilitated global dominance. So with all that in mind (and keep in mind I did cut many a corner trying to make this concise, as this is a very long stretch of history) what we have (in broad strokes) is;

- 1st-3rd Century; Siege and persecution, survival is the primary concern, legitimacy of social cohesion in the face of persecution a great concern as shown by the Donatist schism.

- 4th-6th Century; Consolidation of Christianity over Mediterranean polytheism and philosophy via force, expansion of Christianity into Palestine and recession of Judaism and Samaritanism, conflict with Zoroastrian Iran, codification of the foundations of statist Christianity and orthodoxy, incubation of the Carolingian model.

- 7th-8th Century; A low point, territorial decline, followed by a period of expansion that snowballed into the later eras.

- 9th-12th Century; Expansion, subjugation, and forced conversion of the pagan periphery and the expansion of a Carolingian model of Christian rulership that defined western history afterwards.

- 13th-14th Century; Further expansion of Christianity in the east, Carolingian model exported to the Levant which defined the initial encounter between Crusaders and eastern Christian’s/Muslims/Jews. Eastern Europe and the Balkans recedes to a periphery region and eventually the Crusades are undone. This period of expansion seemed to be followed by schism, as contact with Eastern Christians who were viewed as heretics led to a breakdown in social relations and eventually the crippling of eastern Romania.

- 15th-16th Century; Expansion, the Carolingian model defines the European encounter defined European encounter with indigenous people in the Americans and Africa, expansion seems to coincide with a later period of schism as the Protestant reformation causes great upheaval in Europe.

17th-18th Century; Further expansion, the end period of the schismatic conflicts, incubation of future dominance.

19th Century onward; Total dominance of world affairs, the Carolingian model becomes the fully dominant way of interaction with the periphery in and out of one’s own society (as seen with the relations between Europeans and native Americans and other colonized peoples), zenith of Christian political authority and global hegemony.

So with that in mind, I would actually say that in terms of political history, Christianity is far more determined by expansion and consolidation, saying that it spent most of its history under siege is inaccurate. I wouldn’t, however, say that the early periods under siege did not inform the expansionist mentality that developed after, but at what point that is the result of the actual implications of scripture becomes a theological question. I would also say that the history of western Christianity is most defined by 2 people; Constantine and Charlemagne. But to create a singular framework to unify all of the historiography of Christianity I think would require a greater endeavor.
 
It would be interesting to see an alt-history where Christianity is not as determined by expansion and consolidation as OTL.

Even without getting fully into chaos theory changes, "What if the expansion into previously non-Christian territory Christianity achieved OTL before the Age of Exploration didn't happen?" would be a world very unlike our own.
 
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So with that in mind, I would actually say that in terms of political history, Christianity is far more determined by expansion and consolidation, saying that it spent most of its history under siege is inaccurate. I wouldn’t, however, say that the early periods under siege did not inform the expansionist mentality that developed after, but at what point that is the result of the actual implications of scripture becomes a theological question.
I would say the "low-point" period in terms of territory absolutely informed the Carolingian Mindset that defined Christianity's subsequent history of expansion; I would also say maintain this period of expansion saw itself as "losing" (to its rivals like Islam) in no small part because the gains they saw in these early periods and even during the Crusades couldn't quite restore Christendom to the prominence it once held in the world as they then knew it. The Mongols sort of helped with this (sorry, still looking for a better word here) "siege" mindset, but it wouldn't be until the Carolinginan Model took them into worlds they had not reached or heard of before that the idea of actually making the world, and not just a corner of it, into "God's Kingdom" started to actually seem feasible to Christendom as a whole.

Naturally, such optimism brought about further schisms, just as the Crusades had -- it's easy enough to see every Follower of Christ in the world as your brethren when you're self-conception is informed by being a community under assault; when you're in-group is actively trying to take over the world, your divisions of opinions with each other suddenly seem a lot more existential.
Even without getting fully into chaos theory changes, "What if the expansion into previously non-Christian territory Christianity achieved OTL before the Age of Exploration didn't happen?" would be a world very unlike our own.
I’ve long maintained that a World with No Islam would also a World without Charlemagne or the Carolingian Renaissance.
 
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Sorry, I was just giving an example of how “expansion into previously non-Christian territory” might be achieved.
Ah.

I was thinking of a timeline without the OTL expansion into non-Christian territory - no Christianization of northern and eastern Europe or other expansion elsewhere - but keep (allowing for butterflies and so on) the Islamic advances, the Mongols, etc.

That would be an interesting under siege scenario, but the changes are so immense it wouldn't be very like OTL.
 
I was thinking of a timeline without the OTL expansion into non-Christian territory - no Christianization of northern and eastern Europe or other expansion elsewhere - but keep (allowing for butterflies and so on) the Islamic advances, the Mongols, etc.

That would be an interesting under siege scenario, but the changes are so immense it wouldn't be very like OTL.
Hm, avoiding the Christianization of Northern Europe after the 7th Century is hard, as is keeping Eastern Europe pagan; what you could have is the spread of Islam into Bulgaria, the Kievan Rus, et el, possibly by having Constantinople fall earlier.
 
Hm, avoiding the Christianization of Northern Europe after the 7th Century is hard, as is keeping Eastern Europe pagan; what you could have is the spread of Islam into Bulgaria, the Kievan Rus, et el, possibly by having Constantinople fall earlier.

Well, we have any possible POD in the world for this if one wants to go there. No reason it can't be closer to the 4th century.
 
Well, we have any possible POD in the world for this if one wants to go there. No reason it can't be closer to the 4th century.
True, but that early my preference would be in the other direction -- preventing the post-Constantinian “siege” period (albeit that generally goes hand in hand with averting or delaying the Fall of the Western Roman Empire). And of course, pre 4th Century, I’m like every other AH enthusiast in being curious about a Christianity and world without Constantine.
 
True, but that early my preference would be in the other direction -- preventing the post-Constantinian “siege” period (albeit that generally goes hand in hand with averting or delaying the Fall of the Western Roman Empire). And of course, pre 4th Century, I’m like every other AH enthusiast in being curious about a Christianity and world without Constantine.

It's an option, although the WRE's collapse was largely to Arians as I recall and not non-Christians.
 
It's an option, although the WRE's collapse was largely to Arians as I recall and not non-Christians.
It was due to a lot of factors; even the Arianism of the Visigoths wasn’t as straightforward as history often tells it:
I raise a point of attention: the traditional idea of the early Gothic mass conversion to Arianism, also due to the interpretation of numerous texts by Saint Ambrose, such as the epistle to Marcellina, in which the bishop of Milan explains a perfect overlap between Goths and Arians, Romans and Nicenes, which from religious propaganda texts as they were, are seen as historiographical testimonies, is the subject of continuous revision, at least in the Italian and Spanish context

First of all, the idea that the Arian religious choice was already an instrument for the construction of identity in the second half of the 4th century, implies a nineteenth-century vision of the concept of people, which was not present at the time: the "identity model ” in fact implies the presence of two compact groups, or who at least perceived a common belonging to the same macrogroup and recognized each other in their adherence to particular symbols; on the other hand, the massive adhesion of the barbarians to the Arian creed and of the Romans to the Nicene creed is taken for granted, without taking into consideration either the changes that occurred in the religious balance of the empire, nor the oscillations that characterized the political and diplomatic relations between Rome and the Goths.

Secondly, starting from the 90s of the last century, scholars of Roman law have proceeded with a profound re-examination of the problems linked to the application of the law in the late ancient period, and particular attention has been dedicated to the specific characteristics of the anti-heretical norms in the Theodosian and post-Theodosian. This led to reducing the scope of the imperial measures and to proposing a reconstruction on the basis of which the legislative activity would not lead to an immediate unification of the imperial population from a religious point of view, which would instead struggle to establish itself, leaving large spaces for action to non-Nicene groups

Thirdly, studies relating to Gothic history, starting from the first formulation of the theory of "ethnogenesis" by Wenskus and Wolfram up to subsequent reworkings, have shown how the "Goths" are not to be understood as an always and continuously existed, but rather the product of a long process of mixing groups of different backgrounds and origins, with an identity in continuous transformation.

Therefore we tend to divide Gothic history, from a religious point of view, into three phases: the first includes the period between the 3rd century and 401, the date in which Alaric left with his entourage from Epirus towards the West . In it we find a phenomenon that can be defined as "involuntary evangelization", re-elaborating Gibbon's formulation, in which Christianization does not seem to depend on any planned action, but arises from prolonged contact with pre-existing Christian communities, both in Gothia and elsewhere. interior of the empire. During the period of stay in Moesia II and Thrace, the signs of a "voluntary evangelization" seem to be able to be identified, in which some bishops of the area seem to make contact with the barbarians in order to convert them to their beliefs. In this phase, the conversion does not occur exclusively in a subordinationist or Nicene sense, but is modulated on the basis of the faith professed by the communities with which the Goths, still faithful to traditional cults, must have come into contact. Therefore, both the Arian Goths and the Nicaean Goths, of whom we also have numerous testimonies in the documents of the time, are two small minorities compared to the followers of the traditional cult: Christianity in its variants was essentially widespread among the elites, who they used not to distinguish themselves from the Romans, but to highlight their acculturation process, which was a sort of identifier of social and political status

The second phase is in the era of Alaric, which corresponds to a crucial moment in the process of formation of the group that will then be
settled in Gaul and Spain. During the campaigns fought in Italy, in fact, the group that left Epirus saw a very strong increase in numbers due to the passage between the ranks of the barbarian army of some components that had previously been part of the Roman team, who were both foederati and Romans: so the rate of conversion to Christianity, in both the Arian and Nicean variants, grows exponentially

Only in 418, with the settlement in Aquitaine, in order to guarantee the maintenance - and indeed the expansion - of the sphere of autonomy acquired with the agreements with Flavius Constantius and Honorius, therefore as a conscious political choice, the adherence to the Arian creed , initially determined by particular circumstances and contingencies that were somewhat fortuitous, could be recognized as a distinctive element of the barbarian population compared to the Roman one, and exalted to the point of becoming a true cultural marker
 
There's definitely a case to be made that Christianity was very much under threat between 600 CE (Persian invasion of Byzantium, Rise of Islam) and 750 CE (Battle of Tours, Collapse of the Umayyads). Not sure about the 5th century, although I've heard that the Germanic kingdoms adopted Christianity since they wanted to claim the mantle of "Christian Roman Emperor" after the fall of the Western Empire. I'll probably have to say that the "Dark Period" of Christianity has to be between 400-500 CE, 600-750 CE, 1050-1300 CE, and 1500-1700 CE (Eastern Europe only).

After 800 though, technological and demographic transformations meant that Europe and Byzantium were in the process of already getting out of the Dark Ages. Between 750 and 1050 there seemed to be a peaceful period in the East between Byzantium and the Arab Caliphates, accentuated by the disintegration of the Abbasids into various small Arab Sultanates in the 10th century. In the west, the Franks managed to keep the Arabs out of France proper and a few Christian Northern Spanish kingdoms formed the bulwark coalition that would later usher in the Reconquista. The fact that the Pope managed to form a powerful Crusader coalition proves in my opinion Europe's ability to expand its borders outside of Europe with their technological and economic superiority this early on.

Between the 1050s and 1300s, you have a series of Turkic invaders from the East which could have arguably damaged Europe's technological and political advancements. The Turks undermined Byzantium's Eastern hegemony by permanently conquering Anatolia and the Mongols wrecked havoc across Eastern and parts of Central Europe (I personally doubt that the Mongols could have defeated France or the HRE considering how far their supply lines already were). Hungary managed to stand up to the Mongols seemingly fine, alongside a number of other civilizations that were on the limit of Mongol supply lines. On the other hand, European monetary and political advancements in the Mediterranean, especially in Italian city-states, basically meant that Europe had a significant monetary advantage that they could use to sponsor technological advancements, buy mercenaries, or buy off hostile powers, which then fuels the Age of Exploration, the Enlightenment, Scientific Revolution, and later Capitalism/Industrial Revolution. By this point, it's likely too late to destroy European civilization, short of a much worse Black Death. You can perhaps argue that the Turks and Mongols only affected Eastern Europe and the Mediterranean (considering that the Crusaders would also loot and destroy Constantinople in the Fourth Crusade, I think they were well off enough in this time period). Plus Europe went into a demographic explosion that was only halted by the Black Death (something which Europe wouldn't recover from until the Industrial Revolution).

The last phase in which Europe was under threat from a non-Christian power (let's not bring in more modern countries like China or the Soviet Union into this) was from the Ottomans in the 1500s through 1700s. At their best, the Ottomans could have perhaps made the Mediterranean into their lake and expand a little bit into Central Europe but the 1683 Holy Alliance (plus the Crusades) have shown that the European powers were able to form strong alliances against continued Muslim expansion into Europe beyond Vienna. And by then, Spain, Portugal, France, the Netherlands, and England were already establishing their own colonies throughout the world, diminishing the importance of the Mediterranean and increasing their economic productivity a hundred fold (which is ironic for the Ottomans and Venice considering that Byzantium died just 50 years before the Mediterranean became something of a global economic backwater due to the Age of Exploration). Bring in the Industrial Revolution, and it's game over.

"Dark Period" of Christianity: 400-500 CE, 600-750 CE, 1050-1300 CE (Eastern Europe and the Mediterranean), and 1500-1700 CE (Eastern Europe and the Mediterranean).
 
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@Domz I wouldn’t say the 6th Century was particularly good for Christendom either; even if pretty much all their damage was self-inflicted, this century still saw some very bad degradations in institutions, material prosperity, and cultural influence.

You are of course right that there was a period of recovery starting after the mid-8th Century, though in both west and east these civilizations were still a fraction of their former glory. That of course brings us to the dawn of the Crusader Period.
 
@Domz I wouldn’t say the 6th Century was particularly good for Christendom either; even if pretty much all their damage was self-inflicted, this century still saw some very bad degradations in institutions, material prosperity, and cultural influence.

You are of course right that there was a period of recovery starting after the mid-8th Century, though in both west and east these civilizations were still a fraction of their former glory. That of course brings us to the dawn of the Crusader Period.
To be honest, I find the 6th century to be a Christian vs Christian feud. They were lucky that there were no Persians or Arabs yet, although maybe with the Slavs I guess. Maybe 550 then (I'm honestly just rounding things to centuries to make it convenient).
 
There's definitely a case to be made that Christianity was very much under threat between 600 CE (Persian invasion of Byzantium, Rise of Islam) and 750 CE (Battle of Tours, Collapse of the Umayyads). Not sure about the 5th century, although I've heard that the Germanic kingdoms adopted Christianity since they wanted to claim the mantle of "Christian Roman Emperor" after the fall of the Western Empire. I'll probably have to say that the "Dark Period" of Christianity has to be between 400-500 CE, 600-750 CE, 1050-1300 CE, and 1500-1700 CE (Eastern Europe only).
As @Gwyndolin stated above; you're conflating the political fortunes of a few select Christian powers with those of the religion overall. Neither the Persians nor the Islamic caliphates were an existential threat to the Christian religion, just its political hegemony. Both of these states had large and thriving Christian communities within their borders. Famously, the Umayyads actually restricted conversion to Islam; their religion didn't become a demographic challenge to Christianity in already Christian areas until well into the Abbasid period. Likewise the 1050 to 1300 period was defined by the permanent destruction of non-Christian political power in Europe, and the expansion of Christianity as far east as the Ponto-Caspian steppe.

This seems based off mostly "Decline and Fall" narratives, which contrast "morally good" periods with "morally bad" ones, defined on the political fortunes of states relevant for the legitimacy of present-day regimes. The political theology (the religious justification of power-politics) of these regimes alligns the religion with their interests, which is why we see the Battle of Tours as a triumph of Christianity over Islam, rather than the triumph of a clan of Frankish elites over a band of barely-loyal Berber mercenaries which had almost no relevance for the politics of either the Frankish kingdom or the Umayyad caliphate.
 
As @Gwyndolin stated above; you're conflating the political fortunes of a few select Christian powers with those of the religion overall. Neither the Persians nor the Islamic caliphates were an existential threat to the Christian religion, just its political hegemony. Both of these states had large and thriving Christian communities within their borders. Famously, the Umayyads actually restricted conversion to Islam; their religion didn't become a demographic challenge to Christianity in already Christian areas until well into the Abbasid period. Likewise the 1050 to 1300 period was defined by the permanent destruction of non-Christian political power in Europe, and the expansion of Christianity as far east as the Ponto-Caspian steppe.

This seems based off mostly "Decline and Fall" narratives, which contrast "morally good" periods with "morally bad" ones, defined on the political fortunes of states relevant for the legitimacy of present-day regimes. The political theology (the religious justification of power-politics) of these regimes alligns the religion with their interests, which is why we see the Battle of Tours as a triumph of Christianity over Islam, rather than the triumph of a clan of Frankish elites over a band of barely-loyal Berber mercenaries which had almost no relevance for the politics of either the Frankish kingdom or the Umayyad caliphate.
So combine the two together. My focus is a little more on Byzantium/Islam than it is with France/HRE (which I assume is that guy's focus).

You also don't seem to remember that within a few decades in the 8th century, the Umayaads conquered Spain, besieged Constantinople, and raided deep into France, not to mention the bulldozing the Muslims did by conquering the entire Maghreb (+Persia) a century prior. And that was before the conquest of Germany by the Franks. India also fell to the Muslim conquerors a few centuries later (thanks to them successfully converting the steppe nomads of Central Asia that raised hell throughout Eurasia for centuries), so they definitely had a very successful history of conquest before and after the pivotal European 8th century (therefore Europe's survival as a Christian continent in the Middle Ages isn't necessary guaranteed).
 
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